ethernet cable selection

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ethernet cable selection

Eben King
We're putting in a shed in the back yard.  It'll be about 35'4" from the
outside outlet to the shed, and I want to run ethernet too.  Really I should
be running fiber for future expandability, but there's enough room in the
conduit (it'll be probably 2" diameter, big enough to get the extension cord
end through) that I could probably do it later.

I know running ethernet alongside power is just begging for interference,
but heck if I'm installing a second conduit just for data.  What can I do to
minimize interference?  Is there maybe some sort of heavily shielded cable I
could use?

--
-eben    [hidden email]    ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
LIBRA:  A big promotion is just around the corner for someone
much more talented than you.  Laughter is the very best medicine,
remember that when your appendix bursts next week.  -- Weird Al
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Re: ethernet cable selection

Brandon Johnson
Yes,

There's waterproof/shielded cable. That's the best you'll get. This cable
however is designed that it can be buried without conduit (dig a 2nd
trench) and away from your other line to minimize interference. It's not
extremely durable to root growth, etc, but I've had it last up to 10 years
easy.

http://www.amazon.com/Shielded-Waterproof-Direct-Ethernet-Cable/dp/B0056K1IIM

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:55 PM, Eben King <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We're putting in a shed in the back yard.  It'll be about 35'4" from the
> outside outlet to the shed, and I want to run ethernet too.  Really I
> should be running fiber for future expandability, but there's enough room
> in the conduit (it'll be probably 2" diameter, big enough to get the
> extension cord end through) that I could probably do it later.
>
> I know running ethernet alongside power is just begging for interference,
> but heck if I'm installing a second conduit just for data.  What can I do
> to minimize interference?  Is there maybe some sort of heavily shielded
> cable I could use?
>
> --
> -eben    [hidden email]    ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
> LIBRA:  A big promotion is just around the corner for someone
> much more talented than you.  Laughter is the very best medicine,
> remember that when your appendix bursts next week.  -- Weird Al
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>
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Re: ethernet cable selection

Eben King
On Wed, 3 Feb 2016, Brandon Johnson wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:55 PM, Eben King <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I know running ethernet alongside power is just begging for interference,
>> but heck if I'm installing a second conduit just for data.  What can I do
>> to minimize interference?  Is there maybe some sort of heavily shielded
>> cable I could use?

> Yes,
>
> There's waterproof/shielded cable. That's the best you'll get. This cable
> however is designed that it can be buried without conduit (dig a 2nd
> trench) and away from your other line to minimize interference. It's not
> extremely durable to root growth, etc, but I've had it last up to 10 years
> easy.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Shielded-Waterproof-Direct-Ethernet-Cable/dp/B0056K1IIM

That's cool.  I don't need 1000', not even 100', but I assume there are
smaller quantities available.  Also, how long can a gigabit segment be?
Another option is to stick a high-gain antenna on a DD-WRT router configured
as a bridge.  Probably not as fast, but cheaper as I already have three
spare routers.  Also, impervious to lightning.

--
-eben    [hidden email]    ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
LIBRA:  A big promotion is just around the corner for someone
much more talented than you.  Laughter is the very best medicine,
remember that when your appendix bursts next week.  -- Weird Al
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Re: ethernet cable selection

Brandon Johnson
roughly 300 feet give or take. :) The standard allows for 100 meters max,
with 90 meters maximum horizontal.

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 10:40 PM, Eben King <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Feb 2016, Brandon Johnson wrote:
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:55 PM, Eben King <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I know running ethernet alongside power is just begging for interference,
>>> but heck if I'm installing a second conduit just for data.  What can I do
>>> to minimize interference?  Is there maybe some sort of heavily shielded
>>> cable I could use?
>>>
>>
> Yes,
>>
>> There's waterproof/shielded cable. That's the best you'll get. This cable
>> however is designed that it can be buried without conduit (dig a 2nd
>> trench) and away from your other line to minimize interference. It's not
>> extremely durable to root growth, etc, but I've had it last up to 10 years
>> easy.
>>
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Shielded-Waterproof-Direct-Ethernet-Cable/dp/B0056K1IIM
>>
>
> That's cool.  I don't need 1000', not even 100', but I assume there are
> smaller quantities available.  Also, how long can a gigabit segment be?
> Another option is to stick a high-gain antenna on a DD-WRT router
> configured as a bridge.  Probably not as fast, but cheaper as I already
> have three spare routers.  Also, impervious to lightning.
>
>
> --
> -eben    [hidden email]    ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
> LIBRA:  A big promotion is just around the corner for someone
> much more talented than you.  Laughter is the very best medicine,
> remember that when your appendix bursts next week.  -- Weird Al
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>
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Re: ethernet cable selection

Donald E Haselwood
In reply to this post by Eben King
On Wed, 2016-02-03 at 21:55 -0500, Eben King wrote:

> We're putting in a shed in the back yard.  It'll be about 35'4" from the
> outside outlet to the shed, and I want to run ethernet too.  Really I should
> be running fiber for future expandability, but there's enough room in the
> conduit (it'll be probably 2" diameter, big enough to get the extension cord
> end through) that I could probably do it later.
>
> I know running ethernet alongside power is just begging for interference,
> but heck if I'm installing a second conduit just for data.  What can I do to
> minimize interference?  Is there maybe some sort of heavily shielded cable I
> could use?
>

Eben,

The twist in the pairs of CAT5 cable will go a long way toward reducing
interference.  Shielding helps, of course, but it costs more.  With only
35 or so feet, and the low cost of routers, I would make the hop
wireless.  

With hard wiring there is an issue differences in ground potential when
there are nearby lightning strikes.  You can buy ethernet surge
suppressors that one can put at each end of the cable which will help.
I've used them for connections between rooms in the house and the
router.  It seems to help, though I have had router ports taken out with
one of those lightning bolts where the flash and boom are simultaneous
(maybe not hit the house, but damn close).  Unless you really need the
very top speed, I recommend wireless.

Don
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Re: ethernet cable selection

Chuck Hast
In reply to this post by Brandon Johnson
I have some experience with this, I ran Ethernet from our place in Tampa
to a small building on the property, I knew I should have ran fiber to avoid
ESD from lighting, but figured I would get to it Real Soon Now... But not
before the oak tree in my neighbors yard got hit, and took out the drivers
on the NIC cards on each end of the underground piece.

Run fibre and get your self a couple of media converters you will be glad
you did and after the flash and boom you will still most likely have a good
connection unless something gets it from the power line side.

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 8:01 PM, Brandon Johnson <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> roughly 300 feet give or take. :) The standard allows for 100 meters max,
> with 90 meters maximum horizontal.
>
> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 10:40 PM, Eben King <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 3 Feb 2016, Brandon Johnson wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:55 PM, Eben King <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> I know running ethernet alongside power is just begging for
> interference,
> >>> but heck if I'm installing a second conduit just for data.  What can I
> do
> >>> to minimize interference?  Is there maybe some sort of heavily shielded
> >>> cable I could use?
> >>>
> >>
> > Yes,
> >>
> >> There's waterproof/shielded cable. That's the best you'll get. This
> cable
> >> however is designed that it can be buried without conduit (dig a 2nd
> >> trench) and away from your other line to minimize interference. It's not
> >> extremely durable to root growth, etc, but I've had it last up to 10
> years
> >> easy.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.amazon.com/Shielded-Waterproof-Direct-Ethernet-Cable/dp/B0056K1IIM
> >>
> >
> > That's cool.  I don't need 1000', not even 100', but I assume there are
> > smaller quantities available.  Also, how long can a gigabit segment be?
> > Another option is to stick a high-gain antenna on a DD-WRT router
> > configured as a bridge.  Probably not as fast, but cheaper as I already
> > have three spare routers.  Also, impervious to lightning.
> >
> >
> > --
> > -eben    [hidden email]    ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
> > LIBRA:  A big promotion is just around the corner for someone
> > much more talented than you.  Laughter is the very best medicine,
> > remember that when your appendix bursts next week.  -- Weird Al
> > _______________________________________________
> > slug mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>



--

Chuck Hast  -- KP4DJT --
Glass, five thousand years of history and getting better.
The only container material that the USDA gives blanket approval on.
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Re: ethernet cable selection

Eben King
On Wed, 3 Feb 2016, Chuck Hast wrote:

> I have some experience with this, I ran Ethernet from our place in Tampa
> to a small building on the property, I knew I should have ran fiber to avoid
> ESD from lighting, but figured I would get to it Real Soon Now... But not
> before the oak tree in my neighbors yard got hit, and took out the drivers
> on the NIC cards on each end of the underground piece.
>
> Run fibre and get your self a couple of media converters you will be glad
> you did and after the flash and boom you will still most likely have a good
> connection unless something gets it from the power line side.

I'll probably end up doing the "router configured as network bridge" thing.
I figure this shed is already going to cost me about $1300.  You're right,
optic fiber is the way to go.  Get the right kind and it's somewhat
futureproofed too.

> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 8:01 PM, Brandon Johnson <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> roughly 300 feet give or take. :) The standard allows for 100 meters max,
>> with 90 meters maximum horizontal.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 10:40 PM, Eben King <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2016, Brandon Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 9:55 PM, Eben King <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I know running ethernet alongside power is just begging for
>>>>> interference, but heck if I'm installing a second conduit just for
>>>>> data.  What can I do to minimize interference?  Is there maybe some
>>>>> sort of heavily shielded cable I could use?
>>>>
>>>> Yes,
>>>>
>>>> There's waterproof/shielded cable. That's the best you'll get. This
>>>> cable however is designed that it can be buried without conduit (dig a
>>>> 2nd trench) and away from your other line to minimize interference.
>>>> It's not extremely durable to root growth, etc, but I've had it last up
>>>> to 10 years easy.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Shielded-Waterproof-Direct-Ethernet-Cable/dp/B0056K1IIM
>>>
>>> That's cool.  I don't need 1000', not even 100', but I assume there are
>>> smaller quantities available.  Also, how long can a gigabit segment be?
>>> Another option is to stick a high-gain antenna on a DD-WRT router
>>> configured as a bridge.  Probably not as fast, but cheaper as I already
>>> have three spare routers.  Also, impervious to lightning.

--
-eben    [hidden email]    ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
LIBRA:  A big promotion is just around the corner for someone
much more talented than you.  Laughter is the very best medicine,
remember that when your appendix bursts next week.  -- Weird Al
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Re: ethernet cable selection

rsmoot
In reply to this post by Eben King
Instead of putting an extension cord in conduit, why don't you use buriable Romex
and just direct burial it. It is not very expensive and meets code. If your outlet is
in a box on the outside, you just have to only have the exposed part in conduit.
Then in the shed you have conduit from the ground to the box with your outlets.
The ethernet I would run in small pvc conduit.
Do you want a hard ethernet connection for security? My Netgear RangeMax is good
for at least 500 ft WIFI.
                    Richard Smoot
 
---- Eben King <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We're putting in a shed in the back yard.  It'll be about 35'4" from the
> outside outlet to the shed, and I want to run ethernet too.  Really I should
> be running fiber for future expandability, but there's enough room in the
> conduit (it'll be probably 2" diameter, big enough to get the extension cord
> end through) that I could probably do it later.
>
> I know running ethernet alongside power is just begging for interference,
> but heck if I'm installing a second conduit just for data.  What can I do to
> minimize interference?  Is there maybe some sort of heavily shielded cable I
> could use?
>
> --
> -eben    [hidden email]    ebmanda.redirectme.net:81
> LIBRA:  A big promotion is just around the corner for someone
> much more talented than you.  Laughter is the very best medicine,
> remember that when your appendix bursts next week.  -- Weird Al
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
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Re: ethernet cable selection

Chuck Hast
In reply to this post by Donald E Haselwood
I have also used radio links, most are half duplex and some sort of CSMA
so if it hears something that it THINKS is a legit signal on the channel it
will back off, no big deal for file transfers, email etc, but VoIP and
other time
sensitive activities will see that as jitter (we now live in WA state out
in the
country and have to use HughesNet, which is a real drag and the jitter is
the
pits for VoIP) and will drop packets or set there and stutter or R2D2 on
you.

If you can build a full duplex radio link that is a good way to go wireless
wise.

Otherwise I would just do the fiber and be done with it. You can find
surplus
fiber at very good prices, and I see media converters for under $50. And as
you need speed all you should need to do is replace the media converters.

After my experiences with lightning in Tampa, I would not run one inch of
cat5/6 under the ground, it is a time bomb just waiting to go off.

As to the power, I used the burial approved  Romex just fine all over the
property, never had a blowout, even with the discharge that destroyed the
neighbor's tree, and also one that hit a oak in my back yard on the water
edge, ripped the bark off of one side but half the tree lived, maybe due to
fact that most of the discharge went down the side on the water and I guess
into the water.

I did a camera system between two buildings, we had about 75 ft of fiber
between the two, and the two media converters, seems like 100 ft of fiber
with connectors was about $75. I see Amazon has 30m for $50 with ST
connectors cable is 62.5/125 multimode patch cable, you can put it in PVC
and run it under ground just fine. In order to up the speed all you do is
replace the media converters on each end.

On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 7:54 PM, Donald E Haselwood <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Wed, 2016-02-03 at 21:55 -0500, Eben King wrote:
> > We're putting in a shed in the back yard.  It'll be about 35'4" from the
> > outside outlet to the shed, and I want to run ethernet too.  Really I
> should
> > be running fiber for future expandability, but there's enough room in the
> > conduit (it'll be probably 2" diameter, big enough to get the extension
> cord
> > end through) that I could probably do it later.
> >
> > I know running ethernet alongside power is just begging for interference,
> > but heck if I'm installing a second conduit just for data.  What can I
> do to
> > minimize interference?  Is there maybe some sort of heavily shielded
> cable I
> > could use?
> >
>
> Eben,
>
> The twist in the pairs of CAT5 cable will go a long way toward reducing
> interference.  Shielding helps, of course, but it costs more.  With only
> 35 or so feet, and the low cost of routers, I would make the hop
> wireless.
>
> With hard wiring there is an issue differences in ground potential when
> there are nearby lightning strikes.  You can buy ethernet surge
> suppressors that one can put at each end of the cable which will help.
> I've used them for connections between rooms in the house and the
> router.  It seems to help, though I have had router ports taken out with
> one of those lightning bolts where the flash and boom are simultaneous
> (maybe not hit the house, but damn close).  Unless you really need the
> very top speed, I recommend wireless.
>
> Don
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>



--

Chuck Hast  -- KP4DJT --
Glass, five thousand years of history and getting better.
The only container material that the USDA gives blanket approval on.
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