Industrial grade OS...

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Industrial grade OS...

Chuck Hast
Folks,
I am looking at fielding some desktop machines in the plant here. I
want to use something that works. I do not want to have to deal with
"new user interfaces" ala Unity. Many people have seen my use of
Compiz and they like it. I am trying to figure out where to go as far
as a good stable reliable distro I can use here setup nice desktops
and not have the internals fighting each other (unity vs compiz) and
also have things like mult-page tiff work (I had it working  and some-
where along the way a update from good old Ubuntu killed it. I do not
know which it was because I went for a while without needing to look
at multi-page tiff's, there were several updates in that time period so
I lost that one.

Any and all input welcome, if you have been setting up machines in
a industrial environment where your drawings are multi-page tiffs and
you are able to view them even at reduced page size. (I see that doc-
ument viewer will open them, for a bit it allowed me to see multipage
tiff's but quit, I have Geeqie which will open them and they are very
nice to view, but no multi-page. Again it worked for a bit then quit
along with document viewer. I have observed that when Geeqie opens
it is sort of a double pass, the first pass I end up with something that
looks like the document under Document Viewer, but then Geeqie
appears to continue processing the data as the screen sort of wipes
and the new screen is nice clean and readable text. But that does not
mean much if I can not open multi-page tiffs. For the drawings we have
Draftsight which appears to work well. (Now if stinking AB would make
software that talks to PLCs that runs under Linux I would be in total
OS heaven). But right now if I can just find something that does not
have a bazillion upgrades every week and in general ran like Ubuntu
10.04, I would be quite happy.  I also want to be able to play both vi-
deo and audio so the desktops need to have the internals for those
applications.

I have tried Linux Mint, but it uses the same sources as Ubuntu so
it appears to inherit a lot of the issues that I am having with Ubuntu.

It was a shame that they abandoned the package that was 10.04, it
was such a smooth install, and getting Compiz working was just a
download and install of it.

So I am all ears...



--

Chuck Hast  -- KP4DJT --
Glass, five thousand years of history and getting better.
The only container material that the USDA gives blanket approval on.
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

Brandon Johnson
Mageia 2 has been a really solid distro that meets those requirements. It's
the community for off of Mandriva (formerly Mandrake) after they stopped
production on it.


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Chuck Hast <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Folks,
> I am looking at fielding some desktop machines in the plant here. I
> want to use something that works. I do not want to have to deal with
> "new user interfaces" ala Unity. Many people have seen my use of
> Compiz and they like it. I am trying to figure out where to go as far
> as a good stable reliable distro I can use here setup nice desktops
> and not have the internals fighting each other (unity vs compiz) and
> also have things like mult-page tiff work (I had it working  and some-
> where along the way a update from good old Ubuntu killed it. I do not
> know which it was because I went for a while without needing to look
> at multi-page tiff's, there were several updates in that time period so
> I lost that one.
>
> Any and all input welcome, if you have been setting up machines in
> a industrial environment where your drawings are multi-page tiffs and
> you are able to view them even at reduced page size. (I see that doc-
> ument viewer will open them, for a bit it allowed me to see multipage
> tiff's but quit, I have Geeqie which will open them and they are very
> nice to view, but no multi-page. Again it worked for a bit then quit
> along with document viewer. I have observed that when Geeqie opens
> it is sort of a double pass, the first pass I end up with something that
> looks like the document under Document Viewer, but then Geeqie
> appears to continue processing the data as the screen sort of wipes
> and the new screen is nice clean and readable text. But that does not
> mean much if I can not open multi-page tiffs. For the drawings we have
> Draftsight which appears to work well. (Now if stinking AB would make
> software that talks to PLCs that runs under Linux I would be in total
> OS heaven). But right now if I can just find something that does not
> have a bazillion upgrades every week and in general ran like Ubuntu
> 10.04, I would be quite happy.  I also want to be able to play both vi-
> deo and audio so the desktops need to have the internals for those
> applications.
>
> I have tried Linux Mint, but it uses the same sources as Ubuntu so
> it appears to inherit a lot of the issues that I am having with Ubuntu.
>
> It was a shame that they abandoned the package that was 10.04, it
> was such a smooth install, and getting Compiz working was just a
> download and install of it.
>
> So I am all ears...
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chuck Hast  -- KP4DJT --
> Glass, five thousand years of history and getting better.
> The only container material that the USDA gives blanket approval on.
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

Paul M Foster
In reply to this post by Chuck Hast
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 09:46:24AM -0700, Chuck Hast wrote:

> Folks,
> I am looking at fielding some desktop machines in the plant here. I
> want to use something that works. I do not want to have to deal with
> "new user interfaces" ala Unity. Many people have seen my use of
> Compiz and they like it. I am trying to figure out where to go as far
> as a good stable reliable distro I can use here setup nice desktops
> and not have the internals fighting each other (unity vs compiz) and
> also have things like mult-page tiff work (I had it working  and some-
> where along the way a update from good old Ubuntu killed it. I do not
> know which it was because I went for a while without needing to look
> at multi-page tiff's, there were several updates in that time period so
> I lost that one.

Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros, so I might suggest vanilla
Debian. How easy it would be to customize Debian for what you need, I
can't say. Personally, I opt for for XFCE or more usually, LXDE for the
desktop interface, since I run crappy, underpowered machines. Mepis and
other flavors of Debian are still out there, vying for the scraps left
over since Ubuntu, Mint and their ilk sucked all the oxygen out of the
room.

You could use CentOS, if you want to go the Red Hat way, or perhaps
Fedora.  But I'd stay away from corporate-sponsored versions of Linux,
as you have far less say in how they'll be developed or what choices the
corporation makes.

You could also go the SuSE way, but it's been years since I've heard
anything about that community.

You might check distrowatch.com, and see what's current. (Interestingly
enough, the old Commodore has been resurrected and been fitted with a
64 bit Mint variant. Will wonders never cease?)

Paul

--
Paul M. Foster
http://noferblatz.com
http://quillandmouse.com
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

Jeff
On Monday 15 April 2013 3:07:32 pm Paul M Foster wrote:
>
> Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros,

Actually there are two flavors of Mint. There is Mint, which is *buntu based,
and Mint Debian Edition.  Mint Debian is pure Debian testing with some of the
Mint eye-candy, and is not compatible with Mint *buntu based versions.

Jeff
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

joebrandt
In reply to this post by Chuck Hast
 sounds like you are describing SLED, Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop, I do not believe they have a free license....they don't, its $50 per box for updates.

That being said, I have used Opensues on my machines at work for 3+ years (aka day 1) with no issues.
Also you can deploy SLED and not update it (if it ain't broken...), I did that at home for a while.  Opensuse has many more toys and not all updates are perfect hence it is their testing ground. Opensuse is beta testing for SLED.

I use the KDE GUI and it is windowsy enough for any computer proficient person to use it.  You will fall in love with YAST (yet another software tool) as it is a one stop shopping center for any and all administration tools (server packages too!!).

My 2 cents
Joe Brandt
 

On 04/15/13, Chuck Hast wrote:

Folks,
I am looking at fielding some desktop machines in the plant here. I
want to use something that works. I do not want to have to deal with
"new user interfaces" ala Unity. Many people have seen my use of
Compiz and they like it. I am trying to figure out where to go as far
as a good stable reliable distro I can use here setup nice desktops
and not have the internals fighting each other (unity vs compiz) and
also have things like mult-page tiff work (I had it working and some-
where along the way a update from good old Ubuntu killed it. I do not
know which it was because I went for a while without needing to look
at multi-page tiff's, there were several updates in that time period so
I lost that one.

Any and all input welcome, if you have been setting up machines in
a industrial environment where your drawings are multi-page tiffs and
you are able to view them even at reduced page size. (I see that doc-
ument viewer will open them, for a bit it allowed me to see multipage
tiff's but quit, I have Geeqie which will open them and they are very
nice to view, but no multi-page. Again it worked for a bit then quit
along with document viewer. I have observed that when Geeqie opens
it is sort of a double pass, the first pass I end up with something that
looks like the document under Document Viewer, but then Geeqie
appears to continue processing the data as the screen sort of wipes
and the new screen is nice clean and readable text. But that does not
mean much if I can not open multi-page tiffs. For the drawings we have
Draftsight which appears to work well. (Now if stinking AB would make
software that talks to PLCs that runs under Linux I would be in total
OS heaven). But right now if I can just find something that does not
have a bazillion upgrades every week and in general ran like Ubuntu
10.04, I would be quite happy. I also want to be able to play both vi-
deo and audio so the desktops need to have the internals for those
applications.

I have tried Linux Mint, but it uses the same sources as Ubuntu so
it appears to inherit a lot of the issues that I am having with Ubuntu.

It was a shame that they abandoned the package that was 10.04, it
was such a smooth install, and getting Compiz working was just a
download and install of it.

So I am all ears...



--

Chuck Hast -- KP4DJT --
Glass, five thousand years of history and getting better.
The only container material that the USDA gives blanket approval on.
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

Eben King
In reply to this post by Paul M Foster
On Mon, 15 Apr 2013, Paul M Foster wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 09:46:24AM -0700, Chuck Hast wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>> I am looking at fielding some desktop machines in the plant here. I
>> want to use something that works. I do not want to have to deal with
>> "new user interfaces" ala Unity.
>
> Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros, so I might suggest vanilla
> Debian. How easy it would be to customize Debian for what you need, I
> can't say. Personally, I opt for for XFCE or more usually, LXDE for the
> desktop interface, since I run crappy, underpowered machines. Mepis and
> other flavors of Debian are still out there, vying for the scraps left
> over since Ubuntu, Mint and their ilk sucked all the oxygen out of the
> room.
>
> You could use CentOS, if you want to go the Red Hat way,

That's what they use on user-facing Linuxy machines here (usf.edu).  No idea
what handles the grunt work.

--
-eben    [hidden email]    royalty.mine.nu:81
LIBRA:  A big promotion is just around the corner for someone
much more talented than you.  Laughter is the very best medicine,
remember that when your appendix bursts next week.  -- Weird Al
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

rsmoot
In reply to this post by joebrandt

---- [hidden email] wrote:

>  sounds like you are describing SLED, Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop, I do not believe they have a free license....they don't, its $50 per box for updates.
>
> That being said, I have used Opensues on my machines at work for 3+ years (aka day 1) with no issues.
> Also you can deploy SLED and not update it (if it ain't broken...), I did that at home for a while.  Opensuse has many more toys and not all updates are perfect hence it is their testing ground. Opensuse is beta testing for SLED.
>
> I use the KDE GUI and it is windowsy enough for any computer proficient person to use it.  You will fall in love with YAST (yet another software tool) as it is a one stop shopping center for any and all administration tools (server packages too!!).
>
> My 2 cents
> Joe Brandt
>  
>
> On 04/15/13, Chuck Hast wrote:
>
> Folks,
> I am looking at fielding some desktop machines in the plant here. I
> want to use something that works. I do not want to have to deal with
> "new user interfaces" ala Unity. Many people have seen my use of
> Compiz and they like it. I am trying to figure out where to go as far
> as a good stable reliable distro I can use here setup nice desktops
> and not have the internals fighting each other (unity vs compiz) and
> also have things like mult-page tiff work (I had it working and some-
> where along the way a update from good old Ubuntu killed it. I do not
> know which it was because I went for a while without needing to look
> at multi-page tiff's, there were several updates in that time period so
> I lost that one.
>
> Any and all input welcome, if you have been setting up machines in
> a industrial environment where your drawings are multi-page tiffs and
> you are able to view them even at reduced page size. (I see that doc-
> ument viewer will open them, for a bit it allowed me to see multipage
> tiff's but quit, I have Geeqie which will open them and they are very
> nice to view, but no multi-page. Again it worked for a bit then quit
> along with document viewer. I have observed that when Geeqie opens
> it is sort of a double pass, the first pass I end up with something that
> looks like the document under Document Viewer, but then Geeqie
> appears to continue processing the data as the screen sort of wipes
> and the new screen is nice clean and readable text. But that does not
> mean much if I can not open multi-page tiffs. For the drawings we have
> Draftsight which appears to work well. (Now if stinking AB would make
> software that talks to PLCs that runs under Linux I would be in total
> OS heaven). But right now if I can just find something that does not
> have a bazillion upgrades every week and in general ran like Ubuntu
> 10.04, I would be quite happy. I also want to be able to play both vi-
> deo and audio so the desktops need to have the internals for those
> applications.
>
> I have tried Linux Mint, but it uses the same sources as Ubuntu so
> it appears to inherit a lot of the issues that I am having with Ubuntu.
>
> It was a shame that they abandoned the package that was 10.04, it
> was such a smooth install, and getting Compiz working was just a
> download and install of it.
>
> So I am all ears...
>
>
I am easily running OPEN SUSE 12.3 on a Pentium 4 with 1.25 gig of ram IBM ThinkCeter.
I am useing KDE. You can use Gnome and others.
There is a build center for free where you can set up a customized version.
i can easily see both pages of a two part TIFF.
I got the P4 ThinkCenter at Quicksilver used for $35. Thwey are out of them now
but have others.

                         Richard Smoot
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

Chuck Hast
Folks,

This is rich, keep it coming!!

FYI, I used to run SuSE at home on my machines, but there abouts 11
something I think, there was something really klunky about it and I tried
out Ubuntu, at first I was not too happy with it, I was used to the KDE
interface, but I learned that I could modify it as much as I could the
interface on SuSe, just used different tools, got my Compiz going and
then out came 10.04, that was a real nice easy to use and easy to mod,
STABLE and just well cooked rev. It ran real well until I guess Ubuntu
wanted everyone to move to 12.x and at that point it seemed like every
update to 10.04 brought new instabilities.

I have to do so much work to 12.04 to get it where I like it that it has
become a liability. So I am gathering all of your observations, set up
some VM's and test each one that way, then when I have found one
that looks like what I want to run on my laptop/desktop (it does both,
it is a little ThinkPad X200 with 24" screens at the different locations
where I park it) I will install it on a empty partition on my X200, I will
test and beat on it more after doing the VM selection process. But I
am not going to do so until I have heard as much stuff from the list
as I can, as I want to make sure whatever I put out there does not
come back to bite later on.

Here is what I have run in the past.

Years ago, MANY years ago:
Yigdrasil (sp? been to long) Linux
Red Hat (for a lot of years)
SuSE   (still have a desktop running it)
Ubuntu (9 and then 10.04 which I have been running since it came
            out)
Ubuntu 12.04 for about 6 months now. I found a lot of docs that told
how to get near to what I had on 10.04, I have done that but there was
a LOT of mods that I did to get near there, and there are still a lot of
things that I just don't like. Many of them I go and change and then
when a update comes out the changes get whacked and I end up
with a old Unity piece.

I also have Ubuntu server, I had a Centos server too. Both of them
are quite stable and docile, just set there and cook. But then what
do you expect of a CLI based machine, it is doing exactly what I
WANT it to do, if I wanted a obnoxious server I would install M$...

But now that I may be fielding desktops, I need to get beyond the
geek stage stuff and do just plain old rock solid day in and day out
not failing good code on those machines. That is why your info is
so important to me.



On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 2:55 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> ---- [hidden email] wrote:
> >  sounds like you are describing SLED, Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop, I
> do not believe they have a free license....they don't, its $50 per box for
> updates.
> >
> > That being said, I have used Opensues on my machines at work for 3+
> years (aka day 1) with no issues.
> > Also you can deploy SLED and not update it (if it ain't broken...), I
> did that at home for a while.  Opensuse has many more toys and not all
> updates are perfect hence it is their testing ground. Opensuse is beta
> testing for SLED.
> >
> > I use the KDE GUI and it is windowsy enough for any computer proficient
> person to use it.  You will fall in love with YAST (yet another software
> tool) as it is a one stop shopping center for any and all administration
> tools (server packages too!!).
> >
> > My 2 cents
> > Joe Brandt
> >
> >
> > On 04/15/13, Chuck Hast wrote:
> >
> > Folks,
> > I am looking at fielding some desktop machines in the plant here. I
> > want to use something that works. I do not want to have to deal with
> > "new user interfaces" ala Unity. Many people have seen my use of
> > Compiz and they like it. I am trying to figure out where to go as far
> > as a good stable reliable distro I can use here setup nice desktops
> > and not have the internals fighting each other (unity vs compiz) and
> > also have things like mult-page tiff work (I had it working and some-
> > where along the way a update from good old Ubuntu killed it. I do not
> > know which it was because I went for a while without needing to look
> > at multi-page tiff's, there were several updates in that time period so
> > I lost that one.
> >
> > Any and all input welcome, if you have been setting up machines in
> > a industrial environment where your drawings are multi-page tiffs and
> > you are able to view them even at reduced page size. (I see that doc-
> > ument viewer will open them, for a bit it allowed me to see multipage
> > tiff's but quit, I have Geeqie which will open them and they are very
> > nice to view, but no multi-page. Again it worked for a bit then quit
> > along with document viewer. I have observed that when Geeqie opens
> > it is sort of a double pass, the first pass I end up with something that
> > looks like the document under Document Viewer, but then Geeqie
> > appears to continue processing the data as the screen sort of wipes
> > and the new screen is nice clean and readable text. But that does not
> > mean much if I can not open multi-page tiffs. For the drawings we have
> > Draftsight which appears to work well. (Now if stinking AB would make
> > software that talks to PLCs that runs under Linux I would be in total
> > OS heaven). But right now if I can just find something that does not
> > have a bazillion upgrades every week and in general ran like Ubuntu
> > 10.04, I would be quite happy. I also want to be able to play both vi-
> > deo and audio so the desktops need to have the internals for those
> > applications.
> >
> > I have tried Linux Mint, but it uses the same sources as Ubuntu so
> > it appears to inherit a lot of the issues that I am having with Ubuntu.
> >
> > It was a shame that they abandoned the package that was 10.04, it
> > was such a smooth install, and getting Compiz working was just a
> > download and install of it.
> >
> > So I am all ears...
> >
> >
> I am easily running OPEN SUSE 12.3 on a Pentium 4 with 1.25 gig of ram IBM
> ThinkCeter.
> I am useing KDE. You can use Gnome and others.
> There is a build center for free where you can set up a customized version.
> i can easily see both pages of a two part TIFF.
> I got the P4 ThinkCenter at Quicksilver used for $35. Thwey are out of
> them now
> but have others.
>
>                          Richard Smoot
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>



--

Chuck Hast  -- KP4DJT --
Glass, five thousand years of history and getting better.
The only container material that the USDA gives blanket approval on.
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

Mason Mullins
In reply to this post by Chuck Hast
A lot depends upon what machines are being used, and how they are being used.

KDE is a good desktop choice as it does resemble Windows.

SuSe isn't bad, but I've always found it bloated and a bit sluggish at times.  Fedora is another option, but again it can be a bit bloated.

If you have the time to set it up Slackware is much less bloated and runs pretty fast, but does require a bit more hands on time to set up and maintain.

Of the choices presented so far, SuSe might be worth checking out.

Mason

Sent from my Windows Phone
________________________________
From: Jeff<mailto:[hidden email]>
Sent: ‎4/‎15/‎2013 3:11 PM
To: SLUG Mailing List<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [SLUG] Industrial grade OS...

On Monday 15 April 2013 3:07:32 pm Paul M Foster wrote:
>
> Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros,

Actually there are two flavors of Mint. There is Mint, which is *buntu based,
and Mint Debian Edition.  Mint Debian is pure Debian testing with some of the
Mint eye-candy, and is not compatible with Mint *buntu based versions.

Jeff
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

Brandon Johnson
To repeat the iteration, Mageia 2 meets all these recommendations and is
among the fastest of desktop distros without anything in the way.


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Mason Mullins <[hidden email]>wrote:

> A lot depends upon what machines are being used, and how they are being
> used.
>
> KDE is a good desktop choice as it does resemble Windows.
>
> SuSe isn't bad, but I've always found it bloated and a bit sluggish at
> times.  Fedora is another option, but again it can be a bit bloated.
>
> If you have the time to set it up Slackware is much less bloated and runs
> pretty fast, but does require a bit more hands on time to set up and
> maintain.
>
> Of the choices presented so far, SuSe might be worth checking out.
>
> Mason
>
> Sent from my Windows Phone
> ________________________________
> From: Jeff<mailto:[hidden email]>
> Sent: 4/15/2013 3:11 PM
> To: SLUG Mailing List<mailto:[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Industrial grade OS...
>
> On Monday 15 April 2013 3:07:32 pm Paul M Foster wrote:
> >
> > Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros,
>
> Actually there are two flavors of Mint. There is Mint, which is *buntu
> based,
> and Mint Debian Edition.  Mint Debian is pure Debian testing with some of
> the
> Mint eye-candy, and is not compatible with Mint *buntu based versions.
>
> Jeff
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

PiousMinion
This is my two cents:

Stay away from anything RPM-based. RedHat/CentOS are beyond bloated and
enable every service by default. Sadly this includes SuSE and Mageia.  SuSE
is... still around?  They are basically a really old RedHat fork that puts
important system files in odd places. I can't claim much about Mageia
because I haven't used it since Mandriva, but then it was almost as bad.

This leaves us with DEB-based and "other"-based.(slack,archlinux,gentoo)
I'll just go ahead and scratch ubuntu off the list. It that much better
than the RPM-based distros anyway. :P



You're not going to get anything as solid and as stable as debian, without
compiling everything from source(e.g. gentoo) and knowing every
flaw/security breach that could ever pop up. Debian lets you leave that to
a well established dev/security team.

I don't use debian for 3 reasons.  I want bleeding edge software, I don't
run a lot of linux machines, and I don't run anything important. This means
I can afford the downtime. If I ran something important or had to manage a
lot of machines and I didn't want to have to muck around with them all the
time, I'd definitely run debian.

It sounds like you're deploying several machines, but you didn't say how
many. Personally, if it were a lot of machines, I'd make one master image
and clone it to each machine. If not with debian, then with archlinux(my
fav) or gentoo.  Most modern distros support an initial ram disk which
allows booting the same install via almost any hardware.

If you don't want debian for whatever reason and the target machines are a
bit dated, I would build a baster image based on gentoo.  You'd be shocked
how much of a performance boost you get by simply doing something like not
compiling printer support into every single application and library when
you don't even own a printer.  There is so much fat you can trim out and
get much better performance from older machines.  Obviously, this might be
a daunting task to someone who has never used gentoo so it's a
time/performance tradeoff.




"It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person
so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent...
..To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the
offense. ( Miller, 1993 , p. 4)


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Brandon Johnson <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> To repeat the iteration, Mageia 2 meets all these recommendations and is
> among the fastest of desktop distros without anything in the way.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Mason Mullins <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
>
> > A lot depends upon what machines are being used, and how they are being
> > used.
> >
> > KDE is a good desktop choice as it does resemble Windows.
> >
> > SuSe isn't bad, but I've always found it bloated and a bit sluggish at
> > times.  Fedora is another option, but again it can be a bit bloated.
> >
> > If you have the time to set it up Slackware is much less bloated and runs
> > pretty fast, but does require a bit more hands on time to set up and
> > maintain.
> >
> > Of the choices presented so far, SuSe might be worth checking out.
> >
> > Mason
> >
> > Sent from my Windows Phone
> > ________________________________
> > From: Jeff<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > Sent: 4/15/2013 3:11 PM
> > To: SLUG Mailing List<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Industrial grade OS...
> >
> > On Monday 15 April 2013 3:07:32 pm Paul M Foster wrote:
> > >
> > > Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros,
> >
> > Actually there are two flavors of Mint. There is Mint, which is *buntu
> > based,
> > and Mint Debian Edition.  Mint Debian is pure Debian testing with some of
> > the
> > Mint eye-candy, and is not compatible with Mint *buntu based versions.
> >
> > Jeff
> > _______________________________________________
> > slug mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> > _______________________________________________
> > slug mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>
_______________________________________________
slug mailing list
[hidden email]
https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
Reply | Threaded
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|

Re: Industrial grade OS...

Floyd Roberts
I am really under informed regarding most of the distributions mentioned. I
thought I might chime in as one of the masses? - I wasn't smart or patient
enough for straight up debian or red hat back in the day (tried, failed -
stuck with windows 2000) ubuntu came out and I have run with it ever since
Think I actually started with 7? I was generally happy / gleeful but... you
guessed it - unity - sigh - but a little bit of searching brought me to
xbuntu. Love it. there is some stuff which I have to mess with to get it to
work, but generally it seems once I fix something it stays fixed. Currently
have 3 home machines all running xbuntu. Some work better than others. I
recommend it for what ails you. It is a straight ubuntu build (did I get
that right?) but the interface fails to be annoying or obfuscating.
Luck


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 7:47 PM, PiousMinion <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This is my two cents:
>
> Stay away from anything RPM-based. RedHat/CentOS are beyond bloated and
> enable every service by default. Sadly this includes SuSE and Mageia.  SuSE
> is... still around?  They are basically a really old RedHat fork that puts
> important system files in odd places. I can't claim much about Mageia
> because I haven't used it since Mandriva, but then it was almost as bad.
>
> This leaves us with DEB-based and "other"-based.(slack,archlinux,gentoo)
> I'll just go ahead and scratch ubuntu off the list. It that much better
> than the RPM-based distros anyway. :P
>
>
>
> You're not going to get anything as solid and as stable as debian, without
> compiling everything from source(e.g. gentoo) and knowing every
> flaw/security breach that could ever pop up. Debian lets you leave that to
> a well established dev/security team.
>
> I don't use debian for 3 reasons.  I want bleeding edge software, I don't
> run a lot of linux machines, and I don't run anything important. This means
> I can afford the downtime. If I ran something important or had to manage a
> lot of machines and I didn't want to have to muck around with them all the
> time, I'd definitely run debian.
>
> It sounds like you're deploying several machines, but you didn't say how
> many. Personally, if it were a lot of machines, I'd make one master image
> and clone it to each machine. If not with debian, then with archlinux(my
> fav) or gentoo.  Most modern distros support an initial ram disk which
> allows booting the same install via almost any hardware.
>
> If you don't want debian for whatever reason and the target machines are a
> bit dated, I would build a baster image based on gentoo.  You'd be shocked
> how much of a performance boost you get by simply doing something like not
> compiling printer support into every single application and library when
> you don't even own a printer.  There is so much fat you can trim out and
> get much better performance from older machines.  Obviously, this might be
> a daunting task to someone who has never used gentoo so it's a
> time/performance tradeoff.
>
>
>
>
> "It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person
> so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent...
> ..To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the
> offense. ( Miller, 1993 , p. 4)
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Brandon Johnson <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > To repeat the iteration, Mageia 2 meets all these recommendations and is
> > among the fastest of desktop distros without anything in the way.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Mason Mullins <
> [hidden email]
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > A lot depends upon what machines are being used, and how they are being
> > > used.
> > >
> > > KDE is a good desktop choice as it does resemble Windows.
> > >
> > > SuSe isn't bad, but I've always found it bloated and a bit sluggish at
> > > times.  Fedora is another option, but again it can be a bit bloated.
> > >
> > > If you have the time to set it up Slackware is much less bloated and
> runs
> > > pretty fast, but does require a bit more hands on time to set up and
> > > maintain.
> > >
> > > Of the choices presented so far, SuSe might be worth checking out.
> > >
> > > Mason
> > >
> > > Sent from my Windows Phone
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Jeff<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > > Sent: 4/15/2013 3:11 PM
> > > To: SLUG Mailing List<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Industrial grade OS...
> > >
> > > On Monday 15 April 2013 3:07:32 pm Paul M Foster wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros,
> > >
> > > Actually there are two flavors of Mint. There is Mint, which is *buntu
> > > based,
> > > and Mint Debian Edition.  Mint Debian is pure Debian testing with some
> of
> > > the
> > > Mint eye-candy, and is not compatible with Mint *buntu based versions.
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > slug mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > slug mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > slug mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>
_______________________________________________
slug mailing list
[hidden email]
https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
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|

Re: Industrial grade OS...

Robert Snyder
If it was one machine I would tell you slackware slackware slackware.  But
since we want to automate and manage a wide variety of machines I am going
to back Paul and say Debian Vanilla .

I had installed it for the first time in years from the net install disk
and out of all the OSes I installed for the distro demonstration I have to
say Debian gave a wonder stock gnome non unity desktop that could built off
of to add things like compwiz.

So in the case of saying the right tool for the job, I am going to tell you
debian is that tool.


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Floyd Roberts <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I am really under informed regarding most of the distributions mentioned. I
> thought I might chime in as one of the masses? - I wasn't smart or patient
> enough for straight up debian or red hat back in the day (tried, failed -
> stuck with windows 2000) ubuntu came out and I have run with it ever since
> Think I actually started with 7? I was generally happy / gleeful but... you
> guessed it - unity - sigh - but a little bit of searching brought me to
> xbuntu. Love it. there is some stuff which I have to mess with to get it to
> work, but generally it seems once I fix something it stays fixed. Currently
> have 3 home machines all running xbuntu. Some work better than others. I
> recommend it for what ails you. It is a straight ubuntu build (did I get
> that right?) but the interface fails to be annoying or obfuscating.
> Luck
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 7:47 PM, PiousMinion <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > This is my two cents:
> >
> > Stay away from anything RPM-based. RedHat/CentOS are beyond bloated and
> > enable every service by default. Sadly this includes SuSE and Mageia.
>  SuSE
> > is... still around?  They are basically a really old RedHat fork that
> puts
> > important system files in odd places. I can't claim much about Mageia
> > because I haven't used it since Mandriva, but then it was almost as bad.
> >
> > This leaves us with DEB-based and "other"-based.(slack,archlinux,gentoo)
> > I'll just go ahead and scratch ubuntu off the list. It that much better
> > than the RPM-based distros anyway. :P
> >
> >
> >
> > You're not going to get anything as solid and as stable as debian,
> without
> > compiling everything from source(e.g. gentoo) and knowing every
> > flaw/security breach that could ever pop up. Debian lets you leave that
> to
> > a well established dev/security team.
> >
> > I don't use debian for 3 reasons.  I want bleeding edge software, I don't
> > run a lot of linux machines, and I don't run anything important. This
> means
> > I can afford the downtime. If I ran something important or had to manage
> a
> > lot of machines and I didn't want to have to muck around with them all
> the
> > time, I'd definitely run debian.
> >
> > It sounds like you're deploying several machines, but you didn't say how
> > many. Personally, if it were a lot of machines, I'd make one master image
> > and clone it to each machine. If not with debian, then with archlinux(my
> > fav) or gentoo.  Most modern distros support an initial ram disk which
> > allows booting the same install via almost any hardware.
> >
> > If you don't want debian for whatever reason and the target machines are
> a
> > bit dated, I would build a baster image based on gentoo.  You'd be
> shocked
> > how much of a performance boost you get by simply doing something like
> not
> > compiling printer support into every single application and library when
> > you don't even own a printer.  There is so much fat you can trim out and
> > get much better performance from older machines.  Obviously, this might
> be
> > a daunting task to someone who has never used gentoo so it's a
> > time/performance tradeoff.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person
> > so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent...
> > ..To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the
> > offense. ( Miller, 1993 , p. 4)
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Brandon Johnson <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > To repeat the iteration, Mageia 2 meets all these recommendations and
> is
> > > among the fastest of desktop distros without anything in the way.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Mason Mullins <
> > [hidden email]
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > A lot depends upon what machines are being used, and how they are
> being
> > > > used.
> > > >
> > > > KDE is a good desktop choice as it does resemble Windows.
> > > >
> > > > SuSe isn't bad, but I've always found it bloated and a bit sluggish
> at
> > > > times.  Fedora is another option, but again it can be a bit bloated.
> > > >
> > > > If you have the time to set it up Slackware is much less bloated and
> > runs
> > > > pretty fast, but does require a bit more hands on time to set up and
> > > > maintain.
> > > >
> > > > Of the choices presented so far, SuSe might be worth checking out.
> > > >
> > > > Mason
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my Windows Phone
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Jeff<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > > > Sent: 4/15/2013 3:11 PM
> > > > To: SLUG Mailing List<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Industrial grade OS...
> > > >
> > > > On Monday 15 April 2013 3:07:32 pm Paul M Foster wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros,
> > > >
> > > > Actually there are two flavors of Mint. There is Mint, which is
> *buntu
> > > > based,
> > > > and Mint Debian Edition.  Mint Debian is pure Debian testing with
> some
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > Mint eye-candy, and is not compatible with Mint *buntu based
> versions.
> > > >
> > > > Jeff
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > slug mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > slug mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > slug mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > slug mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>
_______________________________________________
slug mailing list
[hidden email]
https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
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Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Industrial grade OS...

Luke Varnadore
CentOS is not bloat. You can install CentOS 6.4 and expect a very easy to
use environment with minimal packages installed with the yum group
basic-desktop. The only linux server OS's that I have seen deployed in
business environments is Red Hat or CentOS. It gets plenty of support from
all directions and is never a bad choice. The only other OS I would
recommend for servers would be current Debian releases.


On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:47 PM, Robert Snyder <[hidden email]>wrote:

> If it was one machine I would tell you slackware slackware slackware.  But
> since we want to automate and manage a wide variety of machines I am going
> to back Paul and say Debian Vanilla .
>
> I had installed it for the first time in years from the net install disk
> and out of all the OSes I installed for the distro demonstration I have to
> say Debian gave a wonder stock gnome non unity desktop that could built off
> of to add things like compwiz.
>
> So in the case of saying the right tool for the job, I am going to tell you
> debian is that tool.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Floyd Roberts <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
>
> > I am really under informed regarding most of the distributions
> mentioned. I
> > thought I might chime in as one of the masses? - I wasn't smart or
> patient
> > enough for straight up debian or red hat back in the day (tried, failed -
> > stuck with windows 2000) ubuntu came out and I have run with it ever
> since
> > Think I actually started with 7? I was generally happy / gleeful but...
> you
> > guessed it - unity - sigh - but a little bit of searching brought me to
> > xbuntu. Love it. there is some stuff which I have to mess with to get it
> to
> > work, but generally it seems once I fix something it stays fixed.
> Currently
> > have 3 home machines all running xbuntu. Some work better than others. I
> > recommend it for what ails you. It is a straight ubuntu build (did I get
> > that right?) but the interface fails to be annoying or obfuscating.
> > Luck
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 7:47 PM, PiousMinion <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > This is my two cents:
> > >
> > > Stay away from anything RPM-based. RedHat/CentOS are beyond bloated and
> > > enable every service by default. Sadly this includes SuSE and Mageia.
> >  SuSE
> > > is... still around?  They are basically a really old RedHat fork that
> > puts
> > > important system files in odd places. I can't claim much about Mageia
> > > because I haven't used it since Mandriva, but then it was almost as
> bad.
> > >
> > > This leaves us with DEB-based and
> "other"-based.(slack,archlinux,gentoo)
> > > I'll just go ahead and scratch ubuntu off the list. It that much better
> > > than the RPM-based distros anyway. :P
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You're not going to get anything as solid and as stable as debian,
> > without
> > > compiling everything from source(e.g. gentoo) and knowing every
> > > flaw/security breach that could ever pop up. Debian lets you leave that
> > to
> > > a well established dev/security team.
> > >
> > > I don't use debian for 3 reasons.  I want bleeding edge software, I
> don't
> > > run a lot of linux machines, and I don't run anything important. This
> > means
> > > I can afford the downtime. If I ran something important or had to
> manage
> > a
> > > lot of machines and I didn't want to have to muck around with them all
> > the
> > > time, I'd definitely run debian.
> > >
> > > It sounds like you're deploying several machines, but you didn't say
> how
> > > many. Personally, if it were a lot of machines, I'd make one master
> image
> > > and clone it to each machine. If not with debian, then with
> archlinux(my
> > > fav) or gentoo.  Most modern distros support an initial ram disk which
> > > allows booting the same install via almost any hardware.
> > >
> > > If you don't want debian for whatever reason and the target machines
> are
> > a
> > > bit dated, I would build a baster image based on gentoo.  You'd be
> > shocked
> > > how much of a performance boost you get by simply doing something like
> > not
> > > compiling printer support into every single application and library
> when
> > > you don't even own a printer.  There is so much fat you can trim out
> and
> > > get much better performance from older machines.  Obviously, this might
> > be
> > > a daunting task to someone who has never used gentoo so it's a
> > > time/performance tradeoff.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the
> person
> > > so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent...
> > > ..To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of
> the
> > > offense. ( Miller, 1993 , p. 4)
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Brandon Johnson <
> > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > To repeat the iteration, Mageia 2 meets all these recommendations and
> > is
> > > > among the fastest of desktop distros without anything in the way.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Mason Mullins <
> > > [hidden email]
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > A lot depends upon what machines are being used, and how they are
> > being
> > > > > used.
> > > > >
> > > > > KDE is a good desktop choice as it does resemble Windows.
> > > > >
> > > > > SuSe isn't bad, but I've always found it bloated and a bit sluggish
> > at
> > > > > times.  Fedora is another option, but again it can be a bit
> bloated.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you have the time to set it up Slackware is much less bloated
> and
> > > runs
> > > > > pretty fast, but does require a bit more hands on time to set up
> and
> > > > > maintain.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of the choices presented so far, SuSe might be worth checking out.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mason
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from my Windows Phone
> > > > > ________________________________
> > > > > From: Jeff<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > > > > Sent: 4/15/2013 3:11 PM
> > > > > To: SLUG Mailing List<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [SLUG] Industrial grade OS...
> > > > >
> > > > > On Monday 15 April 2013 3:07:32 pm Paul M Foster wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros,
> > > > >
> > > > > Actually there are two flavors of Mint. There is Mint, which is
> > *buntu
> > > > > based,
> > > > > and Mint Debian Edition.  Mint Debian is pure Debian testing with
> > some
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > Mint eye-candy, and is not compatible with Mint *buntu based
> > versions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeff
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > slug mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > slug mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > slug mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > slug mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > slug mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
> >
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>
_______________________________________________
slug mailing list
[hidden email]
https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

Jim Wildman
You didn't mention (or I don't remember) who will be maintaining these
machines in the future. If it is not you, consider that RHT/CentOS
commercial support is readily available and quantifiable (ie, RHCE cert
means something). If you don't have system available but can send me an
example file, I can see what tools can read it.

(yes, I work for Red Hat (started 10/15/12))

I've used Linux commercially since 1995 and would not consider putting
any thing other than a RHT derived system into commercial environment.  
While not perfect, RHT has done a good job of maintaining distros for
years and not breaking (many) things with updates.  As noted, it's
trivial to slim down a RHT system services and installation wise.  Once
in place, they are pretty bullet proof.

Jim Wildman, RHCE
Solutions Architect, Southeast Region
832-226-6747
[hidden email]

On 04/16/2013 02:18 PM, Luke Varnadore wrote:

> CentOS is not bloat. You can install CentOS 6.4 and expect a very easy to
> use environment with minimal packages installed with the yum group
> basic-desktop. The only linux server OS's that I have seen deployed in
> business environments is Red Hat or CentOS. It gets plenty of support from
> all directions and is never a bad choice. The only other OS I would
> recommend for servers would be current Debian releases.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:47 PM, Robert Snyder <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> If it was one machine I would tell you slackware slackware slackware.  But
>> since we want to automate and manage a wide variety of machines I am going
>> to back Paul and say Debian Vanilla .
>>
>> I had installed it for the first time in years from the net install disk
>> and out of all the OSes I installed for the distro demonstration I have to
>> say Debian gave a wonder stock gnome non unity desktop that could built off
>> of to add things like compwiz.
>>
>> So in the case of saying the right tool for the job, I am going to tell you
>> debian is that tool.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Floyd Roberts <[hidden email]
>>> wrote:
>>> I am really under informed regarding most of the distributions
>> mentioned. I
>>> thought I might chime in as one of the masses? - I wasn't smart or
>> patient
>>> enough for straight up debian or red hat back in the day (tried, failed -
>>> stuck with windows 2000) ubuntu came out and I have run with it ever
>> since
>>> Think I actually started with 7? I was generally happy / gleeful but...
>> you
>>> guessed it - unity - sigh - but a little bit of searching brought me to
>>> xbuntu. Love it. there is some stuff which I have to mess with to get it
>> to
>>> work, but generally it seems once I fix something it stays fixed.
>> Currently
>>> have 3 home machines all running xbuntu. Some work better than others. I
>>> recommend it for what ails you. It is a straight ubuntu build (did I get
>>> that right?) but the interface fails to be annoying or obfuscating.
>>> Luck
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 7:47 PM, PiousMinion <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is my two cents:
>>>>
>>>> Stay away from anything RPM-based. RedHat/CentOS are beyond bloated and
>>>> enable every service by default. Sadly this includes SuSE and Mageia.
>>>   SuSE
>>>> is... still around?  They are basically a really old RedHat fork that
>>> puts
>>>> important system files in odd places. I can't claim much about Mageia
>>>> because I haven't used it since Mandriva, but then it was almost as
>> bad.
>>>> This leaves us with DEB-based and
>> "other"-based.(slack,archlinux,gentoo)
>>>> I'll just go ahead and scratch ubuntu off the list. It that much better
>>>> than the RPM-based distros anyway. :P
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You're not going to get anything as solid and as stable as debian,
>>> without
>>>> compiling everything from source(e.g. gentoo) and knowing every
>>>> flaw/security breach that could ever pop up. Debian lets you leave that
>>> to
>>>> a well established dev/security team.
>>>>
>>>> I don't use debian for 3 reasons.  I want bleeding edge software, I
>> don't
>>>> run a lot of linux machines, and I don't run anything important. This
>>> means
>>>> I can afford the downtime. If I ran something important or had to
>> manage
>>> a
>>>> lot of machines and I didn't want to have to muck around with them all
>>> the
>>>> time, I'd definitely run debian.
>>>>
>>>> It sounds like you're deploying several machines, but you didn't say
>> how
>>>> many. Personally, if it were a lot of machines, I'd make one master
>> image
>>>> and clone it to each machine. If not with debian, then with
>> archlinux(my
>>>> fav) or gentoo.  Most modern distros support an initial ram disk which
>>>> allows booting the same install via almost any hardware.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't want debian for whatever reason and the target machines
>> are
>>> a
>>>> bit dated, I would build a baster image based on gentoo.  You'd be
>>> shocked
>>>> how much of a performance boost you get by simply doing something like
>>> not
>>>> compiling printer support into every single application and library
>> when
>>>> you don't even own a printer.  There is so much fat you can trim out
>> and
>>>> get much better performance from older machines.  Obviously, this might
>>> be
>>>> a daunting task to someone who has never used gentoo so it's a
>>>> time/performance tradeoff.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the
>> person
>>>> so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent...
>>>> ..To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of
>> the
>>>> offense. ( Miller, 1993 , p. 4)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Brandon Johnson <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> To repeat the iteration, Mageia 2 meets all these recommendations and
>>> is
>>>>> among the fastest of desktop distros without anything in the way.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Mason Mullins <
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> A lot depends upon what machines are being used, and how they are
>>> being
>>>>>> used.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> KDE is a good desktop choice as it does resemble Windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SuSe isn't bad, but I've always found it bloated and a bit sluggish
>>> at
>>>>>> times.  Fedora is another option, but again it can be a bit
>> bloated.
>>>>>> If you have the time to set it up Slackware is much less bloated
>> and
>>>> runs
>>>>>> pretty fast, but does require a bit more hands on time to set up
>> and
>>>>>> maintain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of the choices presented so far, SuSe might be worth checking out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mason
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: Jeff<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>>> Sent: 4/15/2013 3:11 PM
>>>>>> To: SLUG Mailing List<mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Industrial grade OS...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Monday 15 April 2013 3:07:32 pm Paul M Foster wrote:
>>>>>>> Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros,
>>>>>> Actually there are two flavors of Mint. There is Mint, which is
>>> *buntu
>>>>>> based,
>>>>>> and Mint Debian Edition.  Mint Debian is pure Debian testing with
>>> some
>>>> of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Mint eye-candy, and is not compatible with Mint *buntu based
>>> versions.
>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> slug mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> slug mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> slug mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> slug mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> slug mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> slug mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>>
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

PiousMinion
We've heard one side. Only fair now to hear the other.

I've had to use it myself and it's been nothing but a hassle every time..
CentOS and RedHat are about the worst distros out there quite frankly, but
I guess being horrible doesn't matter as much if you have a huge corporate
backing, paid support, and pulling a Microsoft with the "certification"
bologna.

Anyway, A vanilla/minimal install on my dekstop took almost 2 full minutes
to boot and this is nowhere near an ancient machine. Not only is that
pathetic, but even the package manager is slow. A simpl request to install
a package requires an obscene number of round trips before it finally gets
around to downloading, let alone, installing anything.  Which leads me to
another thing. They completely omit often used options at compile time
leaving you with things like PHP not having mcrypt or sqlite support.  This
means you have to compile many programs/libraries yourself unless your
needs fall perfectly into their cookie-cutter environment. Of course, this
isn't supported, voiding warrantee, blah blah.... unless you pay more.

Also, take a look at every major security breach of a linux system you've
heard about in the news. Find me one that wasn't RedHat/CentOS. lol

Ubuntu gets nowhere near the hate that I have for these distros.  That
alone should speak volumes.

I could go on and on for days at my disgust and contempt for them, but to
put it short, unless you have an uninformed higher-up dicating that you
must use CentOs/Redhat "because that's what all the businesses use", don't
waste your time.  If this is the case however, I'd reccomend alternative
employment opportunities.

P.S. Maybe I'll go hunt down a gentoo dev so he can post on our little
mailing list like an expert or something and support my claims.  Nah, that
would be kind of, what's the word I'm looking for?  Weak? childish?  Words
fail me at the moment, but you get the idea.

"It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person
so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent...
..To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the
offense. ( Miller, 1993 , p. 4)


On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 8:07 AM, Jim Wildman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You didn't mention (or I don't remember) who will be maintaining these
> machines in the future. If it is not you, consider that RHT/CentOS
> commercial support is readily available and quantifiable (ie, RHCE cert
> means something). If you don't have system available but can send me an
> example file, I can see what tools can read it.
>
> (yes, I work for Red Hat (started 10/15/12))
>
> I've used Linux commercially since 1995 and would not consider putting any
> thing other than a RHT derived system into commercial environment.  While
> not perfect, RHT has done a good job of maintaining distros for years and
> not breaking (many) things with updates.  As noted, it's trivial to slim
> down a RHT system services and installation wise.  Once in place, they are
> pretty bullet proof.
>
> Jim Wildman, RHCE
> Solutions Architect, Southeast Region
> 832-226-6747
> [hidden email]
>
>
> On 04/16/2013 02:18 PM, Luke Varnadore wrote:
>
>> CentOS is not bloat. You can install CentOS 6.4 and expect a very easy to
>> use environment with minimal packages installed with the yum group
>> basic-desktop. The only linux server OS's that I have seen deployed in
>> business environments is Red Hat or CentOS. It gets plenty of support from
>> all directions and is never a bad choice. The only other OS I would
>> recommend for servers would be current Debian releases.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:47 PM, Robert Snyder <[hidden email]
>> >wrote:
>>
>>  If it was one machine I would tell you slackware slackware slackware.
>>>  But
>>> since we want to automate and manage a wide variety of machines I am
>>> going
>>> to back Paul and say Debian Vanilla .
>>>
>>> I had installed it for the first time in years from the net install disk
>>> and out of all the OSes I installed for the distro demonstration I have
>>> to
>>> say Debian gave a wonder stock gnome non unity desktop that could built
>>> off
>>> of to add things like compwiz.
>>>
>>> So in the case of saying the right tool for the job, I am going to tell
>>> you
>>> debian is that tool.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Floyd Roberts <[hidden email]
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I am really under informed regarding most of the distributions
>>>>
>>> mentioned. I
>>>
>>>> thought I might chime in as one of the masses? - I wasn't smart or
>>>>
>>> patient
>>>
>>>> enough for straight up debian or red hat back in the day (tried, failed
>>>> -
>>>> stuck with windows 2000) ubuntu came out and I have run with it ever
>>>>
>>> since
>>>
>>>> Think I actually started with 7? I was generally happy / gleeful but...
>>>>
>>> you
>>>
>>>> guessed it - unity - sigh - but a little bit of searching brought me to
>>>> xbuntu. Love it. there is some stuff which I have to mess with to get it
>>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>> work, but generally it seems once I fix something it stays fixed.
>>>>
>>> Currently
>>>
>>>> have 3 home machines all running xbuntu. Some work better than others. I
>>>> recommend it for what ails you. It is a straight ubuntu build (did I get
>>>> that right?) but the interface fails to be annoying or obfuscating.
>>>> Luck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 7:47 PM, PiousMinion <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  This is my two cents:
>>>>>
>>>>> Stay away from anything RPM-based. RedHat/CentOS are beyond bloated and
>>>>> enable every service by default. Sadly this includes SuSE and Mageia.
>>>>>
>>>>   SuSE
>>>>
>>>>> is... still around?  They are basically a really old RedHat fork that
>>>>>
>>>> puts
>>>>
>>>>> important system files in odd places. I can't claim much about Mageia
>>>>> because I haven't used it since Mandriva, but then it was almost as
>>>>>
>>>> bad.
>>>
>>>> This leaves us with DEB-based and
>>>>>
>>>> "other"-based.(slack,**archlinux,gentoo)
>>>
>>>> I'll just go ahead and scratch ubuntu off the list. It that much better
>>>>> than the RPM-based distros anyway. :P
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You're not going to get anything as solid and as stable as debian,
>>>>>
>>>> without
>>>>
>>>>> compiling everything from source(e.g. gentoo) and knowing every
>>>>> flaw/security breach that could ever pop up. Debian lets you leave that
>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> a well established dev/security team.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't use debian for 3 reasons.  I want bleeding edge software, I
>>>>>
>>>> don't
>>>
>>>> run a lot of linux machines, and I don't run anything important. This
>>>>>
>>>> means
>>>>
>>>>> I can afford the downtime. If I ran something important or had to
>>>>>
>>>> manage
>>>
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>>> lot of machines and I didn't want to have to muck around with them all
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> time, I'd definitely run debian.
>>>>>
>>>>> It sounds like you're deploying several machines, but you didn't say
>>>>>
>>>> how
>>>
>>>> many. Personally, if it were a lot of machines, I'd make one master
>>>>>
>>>> image
>>>
>>>> and clone it to each machine. If not with debian, then with
>>>>>
>>>> archlinux(my
>>>
>>>> fav) or gentoo.  Most modern distros support an initial ram disk which
>>>>> allows booting the same install via almost any hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you don't want debian for whatever reason and the target machines
>>>>>
>>>> are
>>>
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>>> bit dated, I would build a baster image based on gentoo.  You'd be
>>>>>
>>>> shocked
>>>>
>>>>> how much of a performance boost you get by simply doing something like
>>>>>
>>>> not
>>>>
>>>>> compiling printer support into every single application and library
>>>>>
>>>> when
>>>
>>>> you don't even own a printer.  There is so much fat you can trim out
>>>>>
>>>> and
>>>
>>>> get much better performance from older machines.  Obviously, this might
>>>>>
>>>> be
>>>>
>>>>> a daunting task to someone who has never used gentoo so it's a
>>>>> time/performance tradeoff.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the
>>>>>
>>>> person
>>>
>>>> so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent...
>>>>> ..To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>
>>>> offense. ( Miller, 1993 , p. 4)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Brandon Johnson <
>>>>> [hidden email]**> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  To repeat the iteration, Mageia 2 meets all these recommendations and
>>>>>>
>>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>> among the fastest of desktop distros without anything in the way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Mason Mullins <
>>>>>>
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> A lot depends upon what machines are being used, and how they are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> being
>>>>
>>>>> used.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> KDE is a good desktop choice as it does resemble Windows.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SuSe isn't bad, but I've always found it bloated and a bit sluggish
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> at
>>>>
>>>>> times.  Fedora is another option, but again it can be a bit
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> bloated.
>>>
>>>> If you have the time to set it up Slackware is much less bloated
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>
>>>> runs
>>>>>
>>>>>> pretty fast, but does require a bit more hands on time to set up
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>
>>>> maintain.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of the choices presented so far, SuSe might be worth checking out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mason
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>>>>>> ______________________________**__
>>>>>>> From: Jeff<mailto:jdavis336@**tampabay.rr.com<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> Sent: 4/15/2013 3:11 PM
>>>>>>> To: SLUG Mailing List<mailto:slug@suncoastlug.**org<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Industrial grade OS...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Monday 15 April 2013 3:07:32 pm Paul M Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually there are two flavors of Mint. There is Mint, which is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> *buntu
>>>>
>>>>> based,
>>>>>>> and Mint Debian Edition.  Mint Debian is pure Debian testing with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> some
>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Mint eye-candy, and is not compatible with Mint *buntu based
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> versions.
>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> slug mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> slug mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>> slug mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> slug mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>>>>
>>>>>  ______________________________**_________________
>>>> slug mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>>>
>>>>  ______________________________**_________________
>>> slug mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>>
>>>  ______________________________**_________________
>> slug mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>
> ______________________________**_________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

Robert Snyder
In reply to this post by Jim Wildman
Jim,

I now I know how you can say that Redhat is running on xnumber of fortune
100 server rooms.   Yes an RHCE does mean something.  It means you learned
Redhat.

Now I could go into a rant about how you seldom hear about exploits in
Slackware or Debian Stable .   I could but I wont because the fact that
Slackware is the oldest surviving distribution says something.

People buy RHEL and Centos for support and nothing else.  If they just run
stock vanilla debian they are not going to need support.


On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 8:07 AM, Jim Wildman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You didn't mention (or I don't remember) who will be maintaining these
> machines in the future. If it is not you, consider that RHT/CentOS
> commercial support is readily available and quantifiable (ie, RHCE cert
> means something). If you don't have system available but can send me an
> example file, I can see what tools can read it.
>
> (yes, I work for Red Hat (started 10/15/12))
>
> I've used Linux commercially since 1995 and would not consider putting any
> thing other than a RHT derived system into commercial environment.  While
> not perfect, RHT has done a good job of maintaining distros for years and
> not breaking (many) things with updates.  As noted, it's trivial to slim
> down a RHT system services and installation wise.  Once in place, they are
> pretty bullet proof.
>
> Jim Wildman, RHCE
> Solutions Architect, Southeast Region
> 832-226-6747
> [hidden email]
>
>
> On 04/16/2013 02:18 PM, Luke Varnadore wrote:
>
>> CentOS is not bloat. You can install CentOS 6.4 and expect a very easy to
>> use environment with minimal packages installed with the yum group
>> basic-desktop. The only linux server OS's that I have seen deployed in
>> business environments is Red Hat or CentOS. It gets plenty of support from
>> all directions and is never a bad choice. The only other OS I would
>> recommend for servers would be current Debian releases.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:47 PM, Robert Snyder <[hidden email]
>> >wrote:
>>
>>  If it was one machine I would tell you slackware slackware slackware.
>>>  But
>>> since we want to automate and manage a wide variety of machines I am
>>> going
>>> to back Paul and say Debian Vanilla .
>>>
>>> I had installed it for the first time in years from the net install disk
>>> and out of all the OSes I installed for the distro demonstration I have
>>> to
>>> say Debian gave a wonder stock gnome non unity desktop that could built
>>> off
>>> of to add things like compwiz.
>>>
>>> So in the case of saying the right tool for the job, I am going to tell
>>> you
>>> debian is that tool.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Floyd Roberts <[hidden email]
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I am really under informed regarding most of the distributions
>>>>
>>> mentioned. I
>>>
>>>> thought I might chime in as one of the masses? - I wasn't smart or
>>>>
>>> patient
>>>
>>>> enough for straight up debian or red hat back in the day (tried, failed
>>>> -
>>>> stuck with windows 2000) ubuntu came out and I have run with it ever
>>>>
>>> since
>>>
>>>> Think I actually started with 7? I was generally happy / gleeful but...
>>>>
>>> you
>>>
>>>> guessed it - unity - sigh - but a little bit of searching brought me to
>>>> xbuntu. Love it. there is some stuff which I have to mess with to get it
>>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>> work, but generally it seems once I fix something it stays fixed.
>>>>
>>> Currently
>>>
>>>> have 3 home machines all running xbuntu. Some work better than others. I
>>>> recommend it for what ails you. It is a straight ubuntu build (did I get
>>>> that right?) but the interface fails to be annoying or obfuscating.
>>>> Luck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 7:47 PM, PiousMinion <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  This is my two cents:
>>>>>
>>>>> Stay away from anything RPM-based. RedHat/CentOS are beyond bloated and
>>>>> enable every service by default. Sadly this includes SuSE and Mageia.
>>>>>
>>>>   SuSE
>>>>
>>>>> is... still around?  They are basically a really old RedHat fork that
>>>>>
>>>> puts
>>>>
>>>>> important system files in odd places. I can't claim much about Mageia
>>>>> because I haven't used it since Mandriva, but then it was almost as
>>>>>
>>>> bad.
>>>
>>>> This leaves us with DEB-based and
>>>>>
>>>> "other"-based.(slack,**archlinux,gentoo)
>>>
>>>> I'll just go ahead and scratch ubuntu off the list. It that much better
>>>>> than the RPM-based distros anyway. :P
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You're not going to get anything as solid and as stable as debian,
>>>>>
>>>> without
>>>>
>>>>> compiling everything from source(e.g. gentoo) and knowing every
>>>>> flaw/security breach that could ever pop up. Debian lets you leave that
>>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> a well established dev/security team.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't use debian for 3 reasons.  I want bleeding edge software, I
>>>>>
>>>> don't
>>>
>>>> run a lot of linux machines, and I don't run anything important. This
>>>>>
>>>> means
>>>>
>>>>> I can afford the downtime. If I ran something important or had to
>>>>>
>>>> manage
>>>
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>>> lot of machines and I didn't want to have to muck around with them all
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> time, I'd definitely run debian.
>>>>>
>>>>> It sounds like you're deploying several machines, but you didn't say
>>>>>
>>>> how
>>>
>>>> many. Personally, if it were a lot of machines, I'd make one master
>>>>>
>>>> image
>>>
>>>> and clone it to each machine. If not with debian, then with
>>>>>
>>>> archlinux(my
>>>
>>>> fav) or gentoo.  Most modern distros support an initial ram disk which
>>>>> allows booting the same install via almost any hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you don't want debian for whatever reason and the target machines
>>>>>
>>>> are
>>>
>>>> a
>>>>
>>>>> bit dated, I would build a baster image based on gentoo.  You'd be
>>>>>
>>>> shocked
>>>>
>>>>> how much of a performance boost you get by simply doing something like
>>>>>
>>>> not
>>>>
>>>>> compiling printer support into every single application and library
>>>>>
>>>> when
>>>
>>>> you don't even own a printer.  There is so much fat you can trim out
>>>>>
>>>> and
>>>
>>>> get much better performance from older machines.  Obviously, this might
>>>>>
>>>> be
>>>>
>>>>> a daunting task to someone who has never used gentoo so it's a
>>>>> time/performance tradeoff.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the
>>>>>
>>>> person
>>>
>>>> so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent...
>>>>> ..To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>
>>>> offense. ( Miller, 1993 , p. 4)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Brandon Johnson <
>>>>> [hidden email]**> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  To repeat the iteration, Mageia 2 meets all these recommendations and
>>>>>>
>>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>> among the fastest of desktop distros without anything in the way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Mason Mullins <
>>>>>>
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> A lot depends upon what machines are being used, and how they are
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> being
>>>>
>>>>> used.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> KDE is a good desktop choice as it does resemble Windows.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SuSe isn't bad, but I've always found it bloated and a bit sluggish
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> at
>>>>
>>>>> times.  Fedora is another option, but again it can be a bit
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> bloated.
>>>
>>>> If you have the time to set it up Slackware is much less bloated
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>
>>>> runs
>>>>>
>>>>>> pretty fast, but does require a bit more hands on time to set up
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> and
>>>
>>>> maintain.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of the choices presented so far, SuSe might be worth checking out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mason
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my Windows Phone
>>>>>>> ______________________________**__
>>>>>>> From: Jeff<mailto:jdavis336@**tampabay.rr.com<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> Sent: 4/15/2013 3:11 PM
>>>>>>> To: SLUG Mailing List<mailto:slug@suncoastlug.**org<[hidden email]>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Industrial grade OS...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Monday 15 April 2013 3:07:32 pm Paul M Foster wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually there are two flavors of Mint. There is Mint, which is
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> *buntu
>>>>
>>>>> based,
>>>>>>> and Mint Debian Edition.  Mint Debian is pure Debian testing with
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> some
>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Mint eye-candy, and is not compatible with Mint *buntu based
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> versions.
>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> slug mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> slug mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>> slug mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> slug mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>>>>
>>>>>  ______________________________**_________________
>>>> slug mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>>>
>>>>  ______________________________**_________________
>>> slug mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>>
>>>  ______________________________**_________________
>> slug mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
>>
> ______________________________**_________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
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>
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

Shawn Goff
In reply to this post by PiousMinion
My experiences with CentOS so far have been nothing but trouble. There is a
very limited package selection, the packages that are there have random
features disabled. My most recent CentOS failure was trying to set up the
PKI system, which I would expect CentOS to be great at.

I have had way more problems with CentOS than with Debian.
On Apr 17, 2013 9:01 AM, "PiousMinion" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We've heard one side. Only fair now to hear the other.
>
> I've had to use it myself and it's been nothing but a hassle every time..
> CentOS and RedHat are about the worst distros out there quite frankly, but
> I guess being horrible doesn't matter as much if you have a huge corporate
> backing, paid support, and pulling a Microsoft with the "certification"
> bologna.
>
> Anyway, A vanilla/minimal install on my dekstop took almost 2 full minutes
> to boot and this is nowhere near an ancient machine. Not only is that
> pathetic, but even the package manager is slow. A simpl request to install
> a package requires an obscene number of round trips before it finally gets
> around to downloading, let alone, installing anything.  Which leads me to
> another thing. They completely omit often used options at compile time
> leaving you with things like PHP not having mcrypt or sqlite support.  This
> means you have to compile many programs/libraries yourself unless your
> needs fall perfectly into their cookie-cutter environment. Of course, this
> isn't supported, voiding warrantee, blah blah.... unless you pay more.
>
> Also, take a look at every major security breach of a linux system you've
> heard about in the news. Find me one that wasn't RedHat/CentOS. lol
>
> Ubuntu gets nowhere near the hate that I have for these distros.  That
> alone should speak volumes.
>
> I could go on and on for days at my disgust and contempt for them, but to
> put it short, unless you have an uninformed higher-up dicating that you
> must use CentOs/Redhat "because that's what all the businesses use", don't
> waste your time.  If this is the case however, I'd reccomend alternative
> employment opportunities.
>
> P.S. Maybe I'll go hunt down a gentoo dev so he can post on our little
> mailing list like an expert or something and support my claims.  Nah, that
> would be kind of, what's the word I'm looking for?  Weak? childish?  Words
> fail me at the moment, but you get the idea.
>
> "It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the person
> so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent...
> ..To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of the
> offense. ( Miller, 1993 , p. 4)
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 8:07 AM, Jim Wildman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > You didn't mention (or I don't remember) who will be maintaining these
> > machines in the future. If it is not you, consider that RHT/CentOS
> > commercial support is readily available and quantifiable (ie, RHCE cert
> > means something). If you don't have system available but can send me an
> > example file, I can see what tools can read it.
> >
> > (yes, I work for Red Hat (started 10/15/12))
> >
> > I've used Linux commercially since 1995 and would not consider putting
> any
> > thing other than a RHT derived system into commercial environment.  While
> > not perfect, RHT has done a good job of maintaining distros for years and
> > not breaking (many) things with updates.  As noted, it's trivial to slim
> > down a RHT system services and installation wise.  Once in place, they
> are
> > pretty bullet proof.
> >
> > Jim Wildman, RHCE
> > Solutions Architect, Southeast Region
> > 832-226-6747
> > [hidden email]
> >
> >
> > On 04/16/2013 02:18 PM, Luke Varnadore wrote:
> >
> >> CentOS is not bloat. You can install CentOS 6.4 and expect a very easy
> to
> >> use environment with minimal packages installed with the yum group
> >> basic-desktop. The only linux server OS's that I have seen deployed in
> >> business environments is Red Hat or CentOS. It gets plenty of support
> from
> >> all directions and is never a bad choice. The only other OS I would
> >> recommend for servers would be current Debian releases.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:47 PM, Robert Snyder <[hidden email]
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >>  If it was one machine I would tell you slackware slackware slackware.
> >>>  But
> >>> since we want to automate and manage a wide variety of machines I am
> >>> going
> >>> to back Paul and say Debian Vanilla .
> >>>
> >>> I had installed it for the first time in years from the net install
> disk
> >>> and out of all the OSes I installed for the distro demonstration I have
> >>> to
> >>> say Debian gave a wonder stock gnome non unity desktop that could built
> >>> off
> >>> of to add things like compwiz.
> >>>
> >>> So in the case of saying the right tool for the job, I am going to tell
> >>> you
> >>> debian is that tool.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Floyd Roberts <
> [hidden email]
> >>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> I am really under informed regarding most of the distributions
> >>>>
> >>> mentioned. I
> >>>
> >>>> thought I might chime in as one of the masses? - I wasn't smart or
> >>>>
> >>> patient
> >>>
> >>>> enough for straight up debian or red hat back in the day (tried,
> failed
> >>>> -
> >>>> stuck with windows 2000) ubuntu came out and I have run with it ever
> >>>>
> >>> since
> >>>
> >>>> Think I actually started with 7? I was generally happy / gleeful
> but...
> >>>>
> >>> you
> >>>
> >>>> guessed it - unity - sigh - but a little bit of searching brought me
> to
> >>>> xbuntu. Love it. there is some stuff which I have to mess with to get
> it
> >>>>
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>>> work, but generally it seems once I fix something it stays fixed.
> >>>>
> >>> Currently
> >>>
> >>>> have 3 home machines all running xbuntu. Some work better than
> others. I
> >>>> recommend it for what ails you. It is a straight ubuntu build (did I
> get
> >>>> that right?) but the interface fails to be annoying or obfuscating.
> >>>> Luck
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 7:47 PM, PiousMinion <[hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>  This is my two cents:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Stay away from anything RPM-based. RedHat/CentOS are beyond bloated
> and
> >>>>> enable every service by default. Sadly this includes SuSE and Mageia.
> >>>>>
> >>>>   SuSE
> >>>>
> >>>>> is... still around?  They are basically a really old RedHat fork that
> >>>>>
> >>>> puts
> >>>>
> >>>>> important system files in odd places. I can't claim much about Mageia
> >>>>> because I haven't used it since Mandriva, but then it was almost as
> >>>>>
> >>>> bad.
> >>>
> >>>> This leaves us with DEB-based and
> >>>>>
> >>>> "other"-based.(slack,**archlinux,gentoo)
> >>>
> >>>> I'll just go ahead and scratch ubuntu off the list. It that much
> better
> >>>>> than the RPM-based distros anyway. :P
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You're not going to get anything as solid and as stable as debian,
> >>>>>
> >>>> without
> >>>>
> >>>>> compiling everything from source(e.g. gentoo) and knowing every
> >>>>> flaw/security breach that could ever pop up. Debian lets you leave
> that
> >>>>>
> >>>> to
> >>>>
> >>>>> a well established dev/security team.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't use debian for 3 reasons.  I want bleeding edge software, I
> >>>>>
> >>>> don't
> >>>
> >>>> run a lot of linux machines, and I don't run anything important. This
> >>>>>
> >>>> means
> >>>>
> >>>>> I can afford the downtime. If I ran something important or had to
> >>>>>
> >>>> manage
> >>>
> >>>> a
> >>>>
> >>>>> lot of machines and I didn't want to have to muck around with them
> all
> >>>>>
> >>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>> time, I'd definitely run debian.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It sounds like you're deploying several machines, but you didn't say
> >>>>>
> >>>> how
> >>>
> >>>> many. Personally, if it were a lot of machines, I'd make one master
> >>>>>
> >>>> image
> >>>
> >>>> and clone it to each machine. If not with debian, then with
> >>>>>
> >>>> archlinux(my
> >>>
> >>>> fav) or gentoo.  Most modern distros support an initial ram disk which
> >>>>> allows booting the same install via almost any hardware.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you don't want debian for whatever reason and the target machines
> >>>>>
> >>>> are
> >>>
> >>>> a
> >>>>
> >>>>> bit dated, I would build a baster image based on gentoo.  You'd be
> >>>>>
> >>>> shocked
> >>>>
> >>>>> how much of a performance boost you get by simply doing something
> like
> >>>>>
> >>>> not
> >>>>
> >>>>> compiling printer support into every single application and library
> >>>>>
> >>>> when
> >>>
> >>>> you don't even own a printer.  There is so much fat you can trim out
> >>>>>
> >>>> and
> >>>
> >>>> get much better performance from older machines.  Obviously, this
> might
> >>>>>
> >>>> be
> >>>>
> >>>>> a daunting task to someone who has never used gentoo so it's a
> >>>>> time/performance tradeoff.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the
> >>>>>
> >>>> person
> >>>
> >>>> so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent...
> >>>>> ..To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of
> >>>>>
> >>>> the
> >>>
> >>>> offense. ( Miller, 1993 , p. 4)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Brandon Johnson <
> >>>>> [hidden email]**> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  To repeat the iteration, Mageia 2 meets all these recommendations
> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> is
> >>>>
> >>>>> among the fastest of desktop distros without anything in the way.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Mason Mullins <
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> A lot depends upon what machines are being used, and how they are
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> being
> >>>>
> >>>>> used.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> KDE is a good desktop choice as it does resemble Windows.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> SuSe isn't bad, but I've always found it bloated and a bit sluggish
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> at
> >>>>
> >>>>> times.  Fedora is another option, but again it can be a bit
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> bloated.
> >>>
> >>>> If you have the time to set it up Slackware is much less bloated
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>
> >>>> runs
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> pretty fast, but does require a bit more hands on time to set up
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>
> >>>> maintain.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Of the choices presented so far, SuSe might be worth checking out.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mason
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent from my Windows Phone
> >>>>>>> ______________________________**__
> >>>>>>> From: Jeff<mailto:jdavis336@**tampabay.rr.com<
> [hidden email]>
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> Sent: 4/15/2013 3:11 PM
> >>>>>>> To: SLUG Mailing List<mailto:slug@suncoastlug.**org<
> [hidden email]>
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Industrial grade OS...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Monday 15 April 2013 3:07:32 pm Paul M Foster wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Actually there are two flavors of Mint. There is Mint, which is
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> *buntu
> >>>>
> >>>>> based,
> >>>>>>> and Mint Debian Edition.  Mint Debian is pure Debian testing with
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> some
> >>>>
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> Mint eye-candy, and is not compatible with Mint *buntu based
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> versions.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Jeff
> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>>> slug mailing list
> >>>>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>>> slug mailing list
> >>>>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>  ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>> slug mailing list
> >>>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>  ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>> slug mailing list
> >>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  ______________________________**_________________
> >>>> slug mailing list
> >>>> [hidden email]
> >>>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
> >>>>
> >>>>  ______________________________**_________________
> >>> slug mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
> >>>
> >>>  ______________________________**_________________
> >> slug mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
> >>
> > ______________________________**_________________
> > slug mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://www.suncoastlug.org/**mailman/listinfo/slug<
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> slug mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug
>
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Re: Industrial grade OS...

Darren Ellis
In reply to this post by Robert Snyder
Gents,

The quality of this thread is getting pretty low.  Any chance we can move
on?

Darren


On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Robert Snyder <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Jim,
>
> I now I know how you can say that Redhat is running on xnumber of fortune
> 100 server rooms.   Yes an RHCE does mean something.  It means you learned
> Redhat.
>
> Now I could go into a rant about how you seldom hear about exploits in
> Slackware or Debian Stable .   I could but I wont because the fact that
> Slackware is the oldest surviving distribution says something.
>
> People buy RHEL and Centos for support and nothing else.  If they just run
> stock vanilla debian they are not going to need support.
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 8:07 AM, Jim Wildman <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > You didn't mention (or I don't remember) who will be maintaining these
> > machines in the future. If it is not you, consider that RHT/CentOS
> > commercial support is readily available and quantifiable (ie, RHCE cert
> > means something). If you don't have system available but can send me an
> > example file, I can see what tools can read it.
> >
> > (yes, I work for Red Hat (started 10/15/12))
> >
> > I've used Linux commercially since 1995 and would not consider putting
> any
> > thing other than a RHT derived system into commercial environment.  While
> > not perfect, RHT has done a good job of maintaining distros for years and
> > not breaking (many) things with updates.  As noted, it's trivial to slim
> > down a RHT system services and installation wise.  Once in place, they
> are
> > pretty bullet proof.
> >
> > Jim Wildman, RHCE
> > Solutions Architect, Southeast Region
> > 832-226-6747
> > [hidden email]
> >
> >
> > On 04/16/2013 02:18 PM, Luke Varnadore wrote:
> >
> >> CentOS is not bloat. You can install CentOS 6.4 and expect a very easy
> to
> >> use environment with minimal packages installed with the yum group
> >> basic-desktop. The only linux server OS's that I have seen deployed in
> >> business environments is Red Hat or CentOS. It gets plenty of support
> from
> >> all directions and is never a bad choice. The only other OS I would
> >> recommend for servers would be current Debian releases.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:47 PM, Robert Snyder <[hidden email]
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >>  If it was one machine I would tell you slackware slackware slackware.
> >>>  But
> >>> since we want to automate and manage a wide variety of machines I am
> >>> going
> >>> to back Paul and say Debian Vanilla .
> >>>
> >>> I had installed it for the first time in years from the net install
> disk
> >>> and out of all the OSes I installed for the distro demonstration I have
> >>> to
> >>> say Debian gave a wonder stock gnome non unity desktop that could built
> >>> off
> >>> of to add things like compwiz.
> >>>
> >>> So in the case of saying the right tool for the job, I am going to tell
> >>> you
> >>> debian is that tool.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Floyd Roberts <
> [hidden email]
> >>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> I am really under informed regarding most of the distributions
> >>>>
> >>> mentioned. I
> >>>
> >>>> thought I might chime in as one of the masses? - I wasn't smart or
> >>>>
> >>> patient
> >>>
> >>>> enough for straight up debian or red hat back in the day (tried,
> failed
> >>>> -
> >>>> stuck with windows 2000) ubuntu came out and I have run with it ever
> >>>>
> >>> since
> >>>
> >>>> Think I actually started with 7? I was generally happy / gleeful
> but...
> >>>>
> >>> you
> >>>
> >>>> guessed it - unity - sigh - but a little bit of searching brought me
> to
> >>>> xbuntu. Love it. there is some stuff which I have to mess with to get
> it
> >>>>
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>>> work, but generally it seems once I fix something it stays fixed.
> >>>>
> >>> Currently
> >>>
> >>>> have 3 home machines all running xbuntu. Some work better than
> others. I
> >>>> recommend it for what ails you. It is a straight ubuntu build (did I
> get
> >>>> that right?) but the interface fails to be annoying or obfuscating.
> >>>> Luck
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 7:47 PM, PiousMinion <[hidden email]>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>  This is my two cents:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Stay away from anything RPM-based. RedHat/CentOS are beyond bloated
> and
> >>>>> enable every service by default. Sadly this includes SuSE and Mageia.
> >>>>>
> >>>>   SuSE
> >>>>
> >>>>> is... still around?  They are basically a really old RedHat fork that
> >>>>>
> >>>> puts
> >>>>
> >>>>> important system files in odd places. I can't claim much about Mageia
> >>>>> because I haven't used it since Mandriva, but then it was almost as
> >>>>>
> >>>> bad.
> >>>
> >>>> This leaves us with DEB-based and
> >>>>>
> >>>> "other"-based.(slack,**archlinux,gentoo)
> >>>
> >>>> I'll just go ahead and scratch ubuntu off the list. It that much
> better
> >>>>> than the RPM-based distros anyway. :P
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You're not going to get anything as solid and as stable as debian,
> >>>>>
> >>>> without
> >>>>
> >>>>> compiling everything from source(e.g. gentoo) and knowing every
> >>>>> flaw/security breach that could ever pop up. Debian lets you leave
> that
> >>>>>
> >>>> to
> >>>>
> >>>>> a well established dev/security team.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't use debian for 3 reasons.  I want bleeding edge software, I
> >>>>>
> >>>> don't
> >>>
> >>>> run a lot of linux machines, and I don't run anything important. This
> >>>>>
> >>>> means
> >>>>
> >>>>> I can afford the downtime. If I ran something important or had to
> >>>>>
> >>>> manage
> >>>
> >>>> a
> >>>>
> >>>>> lot of machines and I didn't want to have to muck around with them
> all
> >>>>>
> >>>> the
> >>>>
> >>>>> time, I'd definitely run debian.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It sounds like you're deploying several machines, but you didn't say
> >>>>>
> >>>> how
> >>>
> >>>> many. Personally, if it were a lot of machines, I'd make one master
> >>>>>
> >>>> image
> >>>
> >>>> and clone it to each machine. If not with debian, then with
> >>>>>
> >>>> archlinux(my
> >>>
> >>>> fav) or gentoo.  Most modern distros support an initial ram disk which
> >>>>> allows booting the same install via almost any hardware.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you don't want debian for whatever reason and the target machines
> >>>>>
> >>>> are
> >>>
> >>>> a
> >>>>
> >>>>> bit dated, I would build a baster image based on gentoo.  You'd be
> >>>>>
> >>>> shocked
> >>>>
> >>>>> how much of a performance boost you get by simply doing something
> like
> >>>>>
> >>>> not
> >>>>
> >>>>> compiling printer support into every single application and library
> >>>>>
> >>>> when
> >>>
> >>>> you don't even own a printer.  There is so much fat you can trim out
> >>>>>
> >>>> and
> >>>
> >>>> get much better performance from older machines.  Obviously, this
> might
> >>>>>
> >>>> be
> >>>>
> >>>>> a daunting task to someone who has never used gentoo so it's a
> >>>>> time/performance tradeoff.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "It is one of the essential features of such incompetence that the
> >>>>>
> >>>> person
> >>>
> >>>> so afflicted is incapable of knowing that he is incompetent...
> >>>>> ..To have such knowledge would already be to remedy a good portion of
> >>>>>
> >>>> the
> >>>
> >>>> offense. ( Miller, 1993 , p. 4)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Brandon Johnson <
> >>>>> [hidden email]**> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  To repeat the iteration, Mageia 2 meets all these recommendations
> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> is
> >>>>
> >>>>> among the fastest of desktop distros without anything in the way.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Mason Mullins <
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> [hidden email]
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> A lot depends upon what machines are being used, and how they are
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> being
> >>>>
> >>>>> used.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> KDE is a good desktop choice as it does resemble Windows.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> SuSe isn't bad, but I've always found it bloated and a bit sluggish
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> at
> >>>>
> >>>>> times.  Fedora is another option, but again it can be a bit
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> bloated.
> >>>
> >>>> If you have the time to set it up Slackware is much less bloated
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>
> >>>> runs
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> pretty fast, but does require a bit more hands on time to set up
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> and
> >>>
> >>>> maintain.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Of the choices presented so far, SuSe might be worth checking out.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mason
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent from my Windows Phone
> >>>>>>> ______________________________**__
> >>>>>>> From: Jeff<mailto:jdavis336@**tampabay.rr.com<
> [hidden email]>
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> Sent: 4/15/2013 3:11 PM
> >>>>>>> To: SLUG Mailing List<mailto:slug@suncoastlug.**org<
> [hidden email]>
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [SLUG] Industrial grade OS...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Monday 15 April 2013 3:07:32 pm Paul M Foster wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ubuntu and Mint are debian-ish distros,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Actually there are two flavors of Mint. There is Mint, which is
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> *buntu
> >>>>
> >>>>> based,
> >>>>>>> and Mint Debian Edition.  Mint Debian is pure Debian testing with
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> some
> >>>>
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> Mint eye-candy, and is not compatible with Mint *buntu based
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> versions.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Jeff
> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>>> slug mailing list
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> https://www.suncoastlug.org/mailman/listinfo/slug>
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Industrial grade OS...

R P Herrold
In reply to this post by Robert Snyder
On Wed, 17 Apr 2013, Robert Snyder wrote:

> Now I could go into a rant about how you seldom hear about exploits in
> Slackware or Debian Stable .   I could but I wont because the fact that
> Slackware is the oldest surviving distribution says something.

Opinions without numbers behind them are just not worth too
much.  It just sounds like fan-boi chest thumping, really

I speak with knowledge gained as one of the founders of
CentOS, and from being its representative to the non-public
'vendor-security' and release co-ordination mailing lists for
the last decade.  I am also subscribed to the security notice
release mailing lists for the BSD's, Debian, Ubuntu,
Slackware, Mandriva, SuSE, Red Hat, Fedora, and of course
CentOS

The reports and the fixes overwhelmingly come from SuSE, and
Red Hat these days.  Every other distribution issues later and
trails their work and I see the security notices trickle out
in the week after those two post a fix (if at all).  Red Hat
and SuSE each publish statistics on participation and 'time to
fix' on exploits revealed.  Mark Cox' pieces are quite
readible, as are Greg Kroah-Hartman's pieces. CVE's issued by
MITRE in a mixed public and closed process 'keep score'
objectively

This has changed over time.  Formerly the community
distributions were relevant, but these days (and for the last
three to five years), the non-commercially backed
distributions just seem to lack the 'mass' needed to do the
software engineering, and to keep up

My POV -- others may disagree

-- Russ herrold
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